Podcast: FINN-ISH – Tales of Integration | Navigating Finland Through Language

Hilyah: Welcome to Finnish tales of integration at the University of Turku, a podcast by international student ambassadors. I'm Hilyah Audah, a doctoral researcher in Affective Neuroscience and international student at the University of Turku, and I'm your host for today in this series, we're here to guide you through the ins and outs of Finland and help you navigate your journey of integration at the University of Turku from practical tips to sharing personal experiences, we'll provide you with the insights you need to make your transition as smooth as possible. Today, we have two guests, Emilia Hongisto and Noemi Hueber, we will be discussing navigating Finland through language insights for international students. Emilia Hongisto is a project coordinator at the Guiding for towards fluent Finnish project, and she is also a Finnish language teacher at the University of Turku. Noemi is founder of radio Turku and is also a cultural integration facilitator, and she's also a former student of Emilia and has personally benefited from learning Finnish. So let's get started.

[Intro Music]

Hilyah: So first of all, Emilia, could you tell us a little bit more about this project guiding towards fluent Finnish? 

Emilia: The project is going on at the moment, and the funding is until the end of year 2025 so we have still some time to work on the project and our main goals are to develop flexible learning options for Finnish as a foreign language, which basically means we're doing a lot of online courses to have as an option with the on-site teaching.

Hilyah: Okay! 

Emilia: And we're also adding much more guidance to our students. So, we've, for example, developed something called the Finnish drop in which we have every Wednesday from one till two o'clock, so anyone can come and ask anything about Finnish language in Agora at the University Hill, for example, how to pronounce ‘A’ if you'd like to ask that, so that's a good question or to plan your studies. And we are giving out also, like personal guidance, which anyone can book if they're at the University of Turku. And we've also kind of refreshed our curriculum for Finnish as a foreign language, so we have developed many new courses, so there's much more kind of flexibility, also shorter courses and specific courses for writing, reading, talking and so on. So, I think we have a lot to offer.

Hilyah: Okay, that's amazing, and hopefully people are enthusiastic about it. We'll follow up more on that later. But first, Noemie, can you tell us more about radio Turku? How did you make it and what inspired you to make it?

Noemie: I founded the radio Turku, I say it the French way. But it was two summers ago. We had a theater group with some Finnish and international friends, and I asked, oh, I discovered that there is a studio in Turku. We can record podcasts there who would like to join, and that's how we started the project. At the moment, we are about 10 people, and now I'm really happy to say that some people from the group are starting to do their own episode. At the beginning I was organizing, but now it's developing, so I'm really happy about it. And the goal was, when you are an international arriving in Finland, you feel often lonely and sometimes bored because you don't know about the activities that are available for you. So our goal was, okay, we will, in each episode, advertise some events, some activities and recommend you, I don't know, a cinema, a theater, festival that you should attend, and it has been going quite well so far. It's really my hobby, and it led me during the summer, for instance, to do my first paid project that was called What's Next, Finland. So, introduction to Finnish life, and just now, my current job is an internship at the University of Turku. So, we are colleagues now, and I am working on the buddy program. So I really recommend, for people who are newcomers, staff or researchers, you can find a buddy, a local friend who will help guide you into your landing in Turku or find places to have a nice lunch, these kind of things.

Hilyah: Okay, well, let's dive into that, also a little bit later, but let's focus on why do you think Emilia it's essential for internationals to learn Finnish when they come to Finland, and how does it impact their success, both in daily life and professional settings.

Emilia: Well, that's a big question first of all. I'll try to be short maybe, but it is essential. It is so important. I meet students, of course, daily, and let's say, first of all, most of our students, the newcomers, they are so motivated to learn Finnish, and that's a wonderful thing, because when you start learning Finnish, right at the start, when you come, or even before you come, I think you will feel much more kind of like home here. And it can be only small things, saying hello Moi at a store, or saying thank you first, and being able to have a small dialog in Finnish at your work or when studying, it makes a big difference, because language is part of the community, and when you can be at least a tiny bit part of the community in the means of the language too, then I think you will feel like home. So, I'd say it's maybe one of the most important things when you go to a new country, and it also gives you the kind of like the point of view of the culture, how it is like, you'll get much more out of Finland and the Finnish culture through the language too. It's not only learning the language, it's much, much more.

Hilyah: Yes, because language forms culture and vice versa as well. But Noemie, as someone who's learned Finnish under Emilia’s guidance, how do you think that's helped you kind of adapt and thrive in Finland, both in your personal and professional life?

Noemie: When I joined Emilia’s class, it was beginner and then starting to be able to do a couple of conversations about this kind of thing. And I remember that during one of your classes, you had an intern who was taking us one by one in a room to have a full conversation in Finnish. And that was the first time I was talking with someone in that language. And that's the moment where and I realized, OK, I can actually have fun while practicing it, because at the moment, it didn't really make sense for me. I was trying to learn, but I didn't manage to create the link between the culture, having fun with people, these kind of things. And one thing that I would really recommend people is to find an activity that you like to do in Finnish. Because since I have been working, I never had time to go to a Finnish class. It's about four hours a week in general at the university. So, what I did is that I joined a theater class in Finnish, and then in my sport club, I asked people to speak to me in Finnish only. And often I look stupid because I don't understand what they ask me. And they say, go here and I go there. So, there are some kind of misunderstandings, but it forces me to really think also in Finnish and to prepare my next sentence, this kind of thing. So that's why, also I decided after to apply to jobs in Finnish to really force me. And it depends on your style of learning. Some people like when they are in the class, and I think you meet a lot of friends in Finnish classes because you talk. But I would really encourage people to find an activity to do in Finnish. 

Hilyah: Okay, that's a great tip that people can use. But as someone during the project and the formation of the project, what do you think are the most common problems or challenges that students face when they're trying to learn Finnish?

Emilia: Number one problem is lack of time. They don’t have time. That's the nowadays life, anyway, for anyone, we've lost time somewhere, I guess, with the new times that we have with our phones and working life and everything is very hectic. So that also happens, of course, in the students’ lives, and it's their studies. Of course, they have a lot of courses, and papers to write. And then, on top of that, you should study Finnish. So, that's maybe the first thing, the second thing, in my opinion, is that, as now we're talking English, Finnish people are too good with English. In a sense, when you go to a store and you'd want to speak Finnish, they will right away change to English. And I think it's because as a nation, we are very willing to help. So, a Finnish person, in my opinion, has the feeling like, if someone is struggling with speaking Finnish, they want to help so much. So, they rather speak English, because they want to help you out. But then the Finnish learners never get pushed into a situation where they would have to speak Finnish. So those two things, maybe are the main things, which are the problems with learning Finnish, not finding time and not having the chances to talk Finnish with Finnish people.

Hilyah: Yeah, so maybe one of the ways to overcome that is to actually put yourself out there and make people speak Finnish to you. But then, Noemie, do you have any tips about how to actually, I don't know, put yourself out there because some people can be pretty shy, and they can be pretty self-conscious. Okay, I'm not really good with my finish, and it does need you. Do you  need patience also, especially in a fun setting. Maybe it's not so important, but when you need something quickly, then people might just revert back to English. So how do you think? What kind of tip Do you have to persevere in actually putting yourself in Finnish?

Noemie: Let's say that to face the challenge of fins switching to English, you can be stubborn, at least that's what I do, is that I continue to speak in Finnish until they switch to Finnish. So that creates really weird conversation sometimes, yeah, but I think you need to show clearly to people that, no, I want to speak only Finnish, but sometimes it's difficult sometimes, and it's also like an ego thing, okay, I'm not sure I'm expressing myself clearly, et cetera. So one thing that my previous supervisor told me is that you need to find places to make mistakes, and I really like decided that, for instance, there are a lot of language circles where people are really tolerant, and it's the moment to make these mistakes and to listen to the mistakes of others also to learn from them. So there are some circles offered by the University, by International House Turku, by the Red Cross at the library in Turku. So a lot of groups exist. You need to look for them. But that's the challenge for Finnish. Finnish resources, you always need to look for them, and I think that that's a big challenge. The last challenge for me was really find entertainment in Finnish. It was difficult because, for sure, there is Finnish literature, for instance, the moomins book, etc, but it's already too difficult for a beginner. So, what I've done is that I read a lot of books for a kid. For instance, the Diary of a Wimpy Kid, because it has the illustration. So it forced me to understand and to look on Yle Areena. They have so many series with subtitles, so even if you don't understand, at least something's happening. And yeah, I would recommend to watch series In Finnish, even if you don't get everything. 

Hilyah: Okay, yeah, that's a great point. And I actually thought of that also when I was talking to my friends, media is a great way to learn another language, especially with vocabulary and everything, because you can actually, you get subtitles, and you can translate, and you're learning as you go. But speaking of learning Finnish as you go, what do you think from your personal experience, Noemi, and also maybe from your students' experience, Emilia What keeps them, What keeps students motivated? Or how can we stay motivated to learn Finnish? 

Emilia: Shall I start? 

Noemie: You can go

Emilia: Noemie is a wonderful example. She's like, she's giving you the right answers here already, she's motivated from her own perspective. There's, when I met her, I knew that she's one of these students who have, like the inner motivation. So, she has, as you've heard, pushed herself to many places, and she has tried to find things that interest her. So, if it's the teacher giving you a list of things, you have to pick your thing that you like, whether it's music or whatever, it can really be whatever, as long as it's in Finnish. So that's one thing, how to keep the motivation. And then the studies also say that it is, of course, to have like a goal. You want to read certain level, maybe want to get a job in Finland, in Finnish, or you want to pass the YKI Test, that's a great goal, but you need much more smaller goals. And your small goal can be today I will say hello in Finnish. That could be the first thing that's, of course, very minor, but that's what the studies also say that those small, small goals, like weekly semester goals, that's already quite big of a one, but make very small goals for yourselves, because then you can see that I've progressed, I've done this much, and then you stay motivated. 

Hilyah: Okay! Yeah!

Emilia: And I think it's also the people around you, like you described many places that you put yourself to, to find nice ways to learn Finnish, and then it's those people there that will keep you motivated, motivated like doing sports in Finnish. It's, of course, challenging, but it's also fun. You know, when you're trying to understand and then you're doing some exercise at the same time, the best way to learn I'd say

Noemie: Yeah, I agree, and I think you need to choose the place that fits your goals. 

Hilyah: Yeah! 

Noemie: The best, so for instance, this semester, I took a class at the NGO Auroras. So if people are interested, it's an NGO for immigrant women in Finland, and it's at a certain level. And for instance, the goal was helping you finding a job. So, each class had a theme connected to writing your CV. What are your strengths, these kind of things. So, it was motivating every time to think about, okay, what do I truly want in my life? These kind of things. So this is really nice to find the right place for your right goal. And I think you need to accept that sometimes you're not motivated. For instance, after I took Emilia's class, I had a big break of one year,

Emilia: That sounds bad, no? No I’m joking.

Noemie: Because I have to learn Swedish. I'm still really bad at Swedish, sadly, but it was too hard to 

Hilyah: Learn both at the same time. 

Noemie: Yeah, and so I really recommend you to cut yourself some slack at some point, like, I don't know if you have a family, if you have kids, sometimes you don't have time to add Finnish to your list of house chores. So, I would say, really be gentle. That okay, this month I have not done Finnish, but tomorrow I will do even five minutes, even saying hi at the supermarket. So, it's okay. And not everyone, I'm not studying Finnish every day, like there are weeks where I don't practice Yeah. So, yeah, it helps the brain, I guess, also to take breaks.

Hilyah: Okay, that's a good point to make. But yes, speaking about language and culture, Emilia, in your project, what kind of extra elements maybe, or how do you integrate teaching Finnish culture is the same time as you're teaching Finnish language

Emilia: And outside of the project too, also like being a university teacher, 

Hilyah: Yes!

Emilia: And teaching Finnish in general, I think teaching the language is teaching the culture. Basically. I'd say every, every teaching moment includes the culture. When you look at the language, there's always something to mention about it. For example, this phrase is used in this kind of a situation or comparing languages. That's what we try to do a lot at the University of Turku. So, showing and also kind of raising the awareness of how languages differ and how it might maybe then show you the side of how Finnish people might think, how their mindset might be like when they speak this language. So, I'd say culture is always there. And on top of that, all of the teachers include cultural art in their teaching. It can be like calendar things like festivities in Finland. So, for example, teaching next Friday, I will mention that now today, I think it's today when the Christmas tree comes.

Hilyah: Ah! Is it today? Nice! 

Emilia: So they will bring it today and on Friday, I'll mention, hey, by the way, it's there. Have you seen it? And what's happening in Turku when the Christmas lights will be lit up and so on. And then there's, of course, we also tell about historic people a bit, because in Finland, for example, I think it's, is it next week's Sunday when it's Jean Sibelius day. So, the Finnish Music Day. We also mentioned this, and I've noticed how the students, they really like to get that information, because then they feel more like, Okay, I know what that Runebergin torttu is, how it might taste like, shall I try it? Compared to a moment when they just go to a store and they look at like, what is that name? So, I think it's very important, and I think it's also very motivating for the students. 

Hilyah: Yeah, it feels like you're actually part and you're integrating into the Finnish culture. But then, Noemie, how has learning Finnish or what have you learned about the Finnish culture after you've started learning the Finnish language?

Noemie: I think I really learned that you need to take it slow, and that I was rushing people too much at the beginning.

Emilia: Do you mean like speaking yourself in conversations or like anything?

Hilyah: Okay! 

Noemie: Yeah, take turns not to invite people too fast. That inviting for a coffee means inviting to a date. Cultural differences

Hilyah: I see!

Noemie: You need to test before understanding

Hilyah: Okay!

Noemie: And otherwise, I think it's really nice to follow on social media. So, for instance, Kielibuusti that you mentioned, or radio Turku, we share information about when it's a special day. For instance, next week, it's Independence Day. We're going probably to share a little something about it to explain what it is. But there are plenty of videos or content on the internet, and I'm really happy to see that more and more internationals are creating content about Finnish culture. So, I think now it's much easier than the people who immigrated here, like 15 years ago, I think it was super difficult to understand the traditions. 

Hilyah: Okay, really cool. So as someone who's seen a lot of students kind of come and go in Finnish classes, do you have any stories, maybe from them that you could share about how Finnish language has helped them integrate into Finland, or how it's kind of helped them improve their everyday life in Finland?

Emilia: Yeah, but there are so many examples but the thing is that I only see students for quite often, only for maybe one course. But then sometimes I'm lucky and I'm able to teach like the next and the next course. So, then the best situation is when I have a student, for example, for two years, and then they finish their studies. Then after that, you can kind of fulfill your studies for two more years. So, they still might come. There are many stories, but just the past weeks, I've gotten two emails from students who I taught maybe two years ago and then now passing the YKI Test, which is the national test for the certificate, and it has made me so happy that they share their time after years to studying, to contact and say thank you for some specific course. So those are, of course, the best moments, maybe, but, yeah, I don't know. There are many, many stories I remember. I remembered you [Noemie] right away when I saw your name. I always get these, like emails I wonder if you remember me Of course, teachers do remember and especially the students who continue their studies and are passionate about Finnish, those are very easy to remember, but there are many stories, but usually I'd say they have something in common with this inner motivation that we talked about, because then those students also, they try to find the ways themselves. Of course, the teachers help. I think it's a good image of a teacher who cannot like pour the knowledge to the student's head. So, it has to be the student themselves. We can try to do that. We try to do that as much as we can, but then it's the student who continues. And, yeah.

Hilyah: okay, that's really nice. What, I think I've asked this before, but maybe we can expand a little bit more on that inner motivation that you have Noemie, is it, Does it come from maybe you liking the Finnish language? Or is it that you like Finland, Finnish culture and Finland as a whole that made you want to stay? Or what do you think is your inner motivation?

Noemie: I think it comes from a couple of things. Like, for instance, I've studied German for 10 years. I still cannot speak German, but when I arrived in Finland, like Finnish language is so different

Hilyah: Yes 

Noemie: From what we are used to in Europe that I was really curious about the logic. And at the beginning, it's so hard to understand the mechanism, but as soon as you pass to a certain level, I think it becomes much simpler. So, you need to be patient, I think, at the beginning. Also, I was sad to be excluded from a lot of conversation. It's not spontaneous that people do it. But of course, when two French people meet, they speak only in French, and all the others don't matter anymore. So, I can understand that sometimes Finns, if there is only one foreigner in the group, they want to speak Finnish. 

Hilyah: Yeah!

Noemie: It's much faster. So even if most of the time I may switch to English, but for instance, in my sport club, every time we had this little sauna shifts, I really wanted to participate in the conversation because it looked funny. And I was like, I want to understand the jokes. So yeah, you want to be part of the group. And the last thing is that when you mention good examples, there is this friend of mine who was an UTU Ambassador Dzmitry Paturemski, and the fact that I have been in class with him. And I was so impressed by how good he was.

Hilyah: Yeah, he is super good.

Noemie: And he was taking, like, grammar courses, also for about the origin of Finnish words, this kind of stuff. And I was so impressed by his dedication. And it was like, okay, I like competition myself, so I need a sort of study to be able to answer him. So, I think you need also to be, to find partners who are learning Finnish with you. Like when I was taking the class with Emilia, I had German friends, and we were having this more circle to speak Finnish. So that motivates you to find partners. Find, not rivals, but people who inspire you, let's say.

Hilyah: Yeah. Okay, that's a great message to,

Noemie: Shoutout to me.

Hilyah: Shoutout to Noemie. All right. Well, we're approaching kind of the end of our conversation. Are there any last messages or, like, words of inspiration that you'd like to tell to internationals who have maybe just come to Turku or who've been here a while, to, you know, motivate them to continue learning Finnish and integrating into the culture.

Emilia: I'd want to say that don't, don't believe when people say, especially Finnish people do that. They say that Finnish language is hard.

Noemie: Learn Japanese, and you will see.

Hilyah: Yes, exactly I was like this is not as hard as Japanese.

Emilia: Finnish language is hard, not hard. Sorry. My point is that there are no languages harder than others in the world. I like to say that babies get born, they learn the languages. There are no Finnish babies saying, like, I can't do this, it’s too hard. So, they're just different. Languages are different. So, keep that in mind. Like what you [Noemie] said happened to you in the beginning. You were a bit lost there for a moment, and you had to kind of understand the new kind of a logic of a new language. So, kind of think of that instead of, this is too hard, I can't do it. You can definitely do it, and anyone, everyone can learn. There's not a single person that couldn't learn so and even small progress gives you the feeling of belonging in Turku and in Finland. So, keep that in mind. It's important, and it's so much fun. We have so much fun in our classes, so usually the feedback we get is that first of all, when they come to on-site teaching, that might be one of the only teaching moments when they really come to a classroom and that it's fun. It's like a relaxing moment alongside other studies, when you have to study a lot and read a lot and maybe be alone, so it might be something very fun, too. 

Hilyah: Yeah, then you integrate by learning Finnish with others. That's a great kind of support system when you're new to the country or to the university. Noemie, any words?

Noemie: Yes. Same language courses, language circles, I think it's one of the best place to make friends, at least it was for me, because you talk about yourself, your family, your home, country, so it's super easy to bond with people, to find common hobbies, these kind of things. But otherwise, as read newsletter from the university for you. I found so many opportunities to join a class or to join an event there for free most of the time. And yeah, do research, ask around, ask the teachers, because they are so many things offered and for free and adapted to your level. It's just you are not aware of it. And I think that's one of the biggest issue in Finland that often you just are not aware that this service exists. Yeah. So.

Hilyah: Okay, that's a really good tip to look around more at what's available at your universities and ask well, thank you very much for coming and making the time today. We had, I think we had a very great had a great, kiitos paljon, discussion, and thank you for tuning in to Finn-ish: tales of integration at the University of Turku. We hope you gained useful insight and feel more prepared for your own integration journey. Don't forget to mark your calendars for our event on Ystävänpäivä, or Friendship Day, February 14, 2025, at the Turku School of Economics in Mercatori. It's a great opportunity to collect with fellow students and share experiences as well until next time, stay engaged, stay connected and remember your integration is our story. 

Noemie: Nahaan!

Emilia: Nahdaan!

Hilyah: Nahdaan!

[Outro Music]